Don't jump to conclusions...

 (Score:1)
 by VitalGeek (geekNOSPAM@vitalviewer.com) on Monday August 28, @06:00PM EST
 (User #227449 Info) http://www.vitalviewer.com

 I would have replied sooner, but I was on an airplane. (Now why don't we have 802.11 in the air?) 

 First off, I think everyone here was taken aback by being compared to facists, evildoers or harbingers of a RMS nightmare. 

 There are quite a few misconceptions that are permeating through the thread. Let me try to clarify some of these... 

 1. This isn't the situation that RMS describes. A licensed user can let someone look at their book. They aren't allowed to give
 copies of the books to their friends, but then again, you can't legally go xerox a whole book either. (This is regardless of the
 DMCA.) 

 2. The users who decide to continue the service will get to keep those editions of the books that they have when they leave
 school. We are working out the details so that a subscription model is in place for those folks who have graduated can have
 the most up to date references in one place. 

 Contrast this with the 40 year old dentist who still has their textbooks from college. Do you want them to be using those 15
 year old books as a reference or the latest available information? Right now (before VitalBook), they have to purchase the
 latest edition at full cost - with us, they can pay less for a subscription and stay up to date. If they don't want the subscription,
 then they just keep the last edition that they recieved. 

 Either way, they get to keep access the books if they paid for them in school. 

 It is almost entirely like the CodeWarrior subscription model. 

 3. VitalBooks cost less. There are a lot more books than the required amount before, and you get all that extra content for the
 same price as you used to pay for less content on paper. You get more information for the same cost. This isn't a price
 gouging ploy. You get more for the same price you would have paid with a paper version. 

 4. Information isn't free. Someone had to write the textbook, someone had to draw the drawings, someone had edit the
 content, someone had to review the content to make sure the content was correct. That goes into most every book. 

 5. A VitalBook disc has ~ 7 GB of content and over 100 books on one disc. 

 6. Schools determine what books go onto the disc. They give us a list and we try to get every book on the list on the disc.
 Usually, we even put more on the disc. I don't know of a case where we limited what a school could put on a disc -
 notwithstanding those publishers who we could not negoiate a license with. 

 7. Our WWW site sucks. It is so bad that we have been obsessed about making a good product that we dropped the ball on
 Internet marketing? 

 8. Why is purchase mandated at the schools who use the system? So that 1) it is ensured that students have the materials
 required for class, 2) by requiring everyone to purchase, you eliminate the casual piracy that goes on (if we didn't do this, we
 would have to charge more, 3) by allowing people to search across multiple books and manuals at the one time, the schools
 thought this was good stuff for the students to have. 

 9. We don't restrict publishers from being available on the disc. There isn't a monopoly on information here. 

 10. For quite a while some schools have required purchase of computers - sometimes they even specify brand...Is this a
 monopoly? 

 11. Dental school curriculums are a fixed entity. Everyone goes through all of the classes. Therefore, at some point during
 your time at school, you will need the book for a given class. 

 12. Can I share it with others? You can show them the books, but you can't copy it. The FAQ on the site is poorly worded. 

 13. We don't sell computers. 

 14. Our affiliation with Total Sports...We share a common investor. Our net infrastructure is shared with them for the time
 being. 

 15. Copy-restriction schemes are a necessary evil for electronic versions of content (otherwise you won't get electronic
 versions of some content...). I don't think there is any good argument around this. The honor system doesn't work. Does it?
 (unless you are Stephen King...) 

 What is a fair and equitable way of making sure that authors, illustrators and the middlemen who bring a electronic product
 to market get paid for their work? 

 We would love to know. Let us know if you have ideas. 

 Thanks, 
 Engineering, Vital Source Technologies 

 [ Reply to This | Parent ] 
---- Original Message ----- From: Support To: 2MuchC0ffeeMan Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 7:34 PM Subject: Re:
 hurm Thanks for feeling passionate about this enough to write us an email. We also are passionate about producing the best
 product (which depends on copyright protected information that belongs to others). Much of this is being discussed in a
 forum on slashdot.org. Our response to the earlier concerns is at:
 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=00/08/28/1158221&cid=466 -Vital Source Technologies that was in email ... i thought it
 was funny that they refered me to this page and not their own server ... they don't wanna be /.'d other than that ... you do
 control the price period. it should be less than one semester of total books, to get any student actaully interested... these
 vitalbooks don't wear or tear, so that won't matter ... paying for the 7GB hard drive is your fault ... somewhere between
 200-500 bucks should be fine ... IANAL, nor a dentist, i do criminal justice at my school, my books cost me 225 ... total, 5
 classes for one semester ... granted, i goto a small school, and bought my books online, i'm sure the dentistry/lawyer/medical
 books cost alot more ... if anything, a significate amount of people won't apply to NYU next year ... through word of mouth,
 i'll tell them not to apply, and to my freinds that go there, i'll tell them to transfer... 
 Those Who Believe THey Are Free Under Any Form Of Government Are Those Who Are Truely Enslaved -anon 
 [ Reply to This | Parent ] 

 Dear Sirs. 

 I've been following this discussion in detail and since I work for the NYU Dental School, I would like to make a few
 comments about your explanation of your product. I feel compelled to clarify a a number of the issues that your product
 brings and explain to you why most reasonable people would agree that your product is not an acceptable means for the
 transmission of education

 First, let me say that when you introduced the product to the University, that it was not reviewed by the IS department. Your
 company had done an end-run around the department, and because this, I resigned from the school. 

 The reason why people are so upset by this is because, unlike what you claim, your product does FAR beyond traditional
 protections of Copyright. Actually, I think your fully aware of this because you state right on your website that your going to
 end the situation where Publishers are competing with their own used books. Since the right of second sale is guaranteed as
 part of the Fair Use Doctrine, right from the start your talking against yourself. 

 The truth is, your product can not be allowed to stand because it DOES threaten the foundations of Democracy and free
 speech in this country. When the Copyright Office was making it's review of classes of works to be be exempted from the
 DMCA, continually people were asking specific cases. You would have qualified as that specific case because you intrude on
 our Fair Use constitutional Guarantees in the following specific ways.

 First of all, one can not copy the textbooks on the disk. It is a legal fact that owners of Books have this right under
 Constitutional Law, but you deny it to your customers.

 Secondly, you claim that you are licensing the material to the students. In this case, the contract would not be valid because
 you couple it with a mandate for ALL the students in the program. In order to be a participant in the educational activities at
 the university you Must Purchase the media and the player. Contracts in which both partners are not equally allowed to
 fairly negotiate are non-binding under case law.

 New York University was concerned about some of these Fair Use issues. As such, they guaranteed that printed books of all
 the material will be available for students if they choose to buy them. But this is not nearly far enough because it is a doubling
 of the expense to obtain what Students already purchased in the first place.

 On a broader level, if the VitalBook product is allowed to pass without challenge, it will be mean the inevitable end to public
 education and a free exchange of information.

 Next will be the medical schools, then the engineering schools, then undergraduate schooling, then High School Education,
 until we reach the point where privately owned libraries and freedom of discussion will be outlawed. As this products works,
 and with the abusive power brought by the DMCA, I don't see my Grandchildren ever owning a copy of Curious George or
 the Cat in the Hat in the future. The publishers will have no incentive to produce paper copies for home ownership. They'll
 just Lease digital copies for a year to year rental.

 Now - I want to answer some of your points.

    1. This isn't the situation that RMS describes. A licensed user can let someone look at their book. They aren't
    allowed to give copies of the books to their friends, but then again, you can't legally go Xerox a whole book either.
    (This is regardless of the DMCA.) 

 As your aware, is not allowed to to give Their copy to someone else, and according to your FAQ, they can not share it with
 upper classmen because you threaten to sue them in plain black and white on your web page. Furthermore, they can not Sell
 their books to other students either. The prevention of this alone is a violation of the students rights, even under the DMCA.
 If an Upper Classman wants to use a lower classmans device to find a paragraph of material - you website makes it clear that
 in your opinion this is a violation of Copyright. Yet, every single court decision and Section 107 of the Copyright Act, and the
 US Constitution says your just plain wrong. 

    2. The users who decide to continue the service will get to keep those editions of the books that they have when
    they leave school. 

 Sirs - This is just NOT GOOD ENOUGH. College Students who pay they're hard earned money should be able to keep their
 book without your permission as part of their basic right to property under the 4th amendment of the US Constitution. What
 your describing is Stalinist at best. I shouldn't even have to give you any reasons why someone may not finish all four years of
 Dental school, because it's irrelevant to the point that your stealing the personal property of the students if they leave the
 school, but let me clue you into some of the reasons why someone might not finish the four years, which would then mean
 they would not be allowed to keep their books. 

 Reason Number one why students drop out - They run out of money and the financial pressure of staying in school becomes
 too great. They might try to re-enter later. Or they might not. But they've completely lost their books, or the right to recoup
 the costs of the books by resale...which is one of your stated aims in your "Partners" section. 

 Reason Number Two - Students may transfer to a different school using a different product or books. Now, all the education
 they did until this point become valueless because your time lock turns of the software. 

    We are working out the details so that a subscription model is in place for those folks who have graduated can
    have the most up to date references in one place. 

 If they want to subscribe to get the latest information or not is a personal decision for the graduate, and has nothing to do,
 whatsoever, with the discussion. 

    Contrast this with the 40 year old dentist who still has their textbooks from college. Do you want them to be using
    those 15 year old books as a reference or the latest available information? Right now (before VitalBook), they
    have to purchase the latest edition at full cost - with us, they can pay less for a subscription and stay up to date. If
    they don't want the subscription, then they just keep the last edition that they received. 

 I want them to use whatever information they choose to use and not be dictated to by VitalBooks. Dentists have continuing
 education mandates which makes it important to them to get further education. Your completely crossing the line when you
 ask this question. They have Dental Association Journals, Research etc available to them. They have no need of your product
 to stay up to date. I definitely WANT my dentist to have the original books he learned with as a point of reference when
 continuing his education as a professional. Your product simple doesn't make that possible. 

    Either way, they get to keep access the books if they paid for them in school. 

 But they don't have Fair Use of them. They can't make a copy of an excerpt for distribution at a Presentation, which is
 completely Fair Use and legal under Copyright Law. And then you can go out of business, or their computer can break. Your
 system makes the safety of all the information the Graduate is using dependent on your good will and health as a private
 corporation. This is not a risk the public should be asked to bare. 

    3. VitalBooks cost less. There are a lot more books than the required amount before, and you get all that extra
    content for the same price as you used to pay for less content on paper. You get more information for the same
    cost. This isn't a price gouging ploy. You get more for the same price you would have paid with a paper version. 

 This is only relevant if we were talking about an open market. Since your program mandates "100% penetration" of the
 "Market", and since students do not own the books, but are forced to pay for them, your discussion of the relative cost is
 confusing.

 Your promising Vendors that they will make more money because they'll sell more books, and then argue that it's cheaper
 for the student. How is this Magic performed? Hmmm 

 Well - for one thing, you prevent the right of second sale, eliminating the used book market, as you point out on your web
 site. 

 Secondly, you are forcing students to buy material they don't want or need by taking the purchasing decision out of their
 hands and force feeding them material which may or may not be apropiate for their personal use. So your price fixing and
 using extortion. 

    4. Information isn't free. Someone had to write the textbook, someone had to draw the drawings, someone had
    edit the content, someone had to review the content to make sure the content was correct. That goes into most
    every book. 

 And your point? It's not up to public to assure a profit. For God Sakes, NYU Dental changes over 60K a year in tuition, and
 then make a tidy profit with their dental clinics. Let them publish their own material on the Internet if need be. - Oh - but
 that's that you and your publishing partners are worried about in the first place. If NYU Dental, the Largest Dental School in
 the US gets serious about self publish material cheaply with the Internet, and inexpensive tools for video production and
 editing, then they cut the publishers out of the picture all together......... 

    5. A VitalBook disc has ~ 7 GB of content and over 100 books on one disc. 

 So? The NY Public Library in multiples of that. Ever hear of Index Medicus? 

 What's the point. Everyone has to carry the cost of 100 books because you insist?

    6. Schools determine what books go onto the disc. They give us a list and we try to get every book on the list on the
    disc. Usually, we even put more on the disc. I don't know of a case where we limited what a school could put on a
    disc - notwithstanding those publishers who we could not negotiate a license with. 

 Oh - your being very Coy. Of COURSE you include MORE on the disk than NYU asks for. It's part of your guarantee to
 publishers. The question is why should NYU have to PAY for more than they're asking for.. 

    7. Our WWW site sucks. It is so bad that we have been obsessed about making a good product that we dropped the
    ball on Internet marketing? 

 No - you dropped the ball in Civics and consideration of the welfare of the public. Your website is quite good enough at
 making clear your total disrespect for Students and the American Publics right to own what they purchase and freedom to
 educate. 

    8. Why is purchase mandated at the schools who use the system? So that 1) it is ensured that students have the
    materials required for class, 

 That's just not true.. For your own website: 

 the core concept of the VSTi solution hinges on the concept that static content is no longer sold to students for a one-time
 payment; continually updated information is now licensed to students for a recurring, yearly fee. Students license books from
 year to year, with the opportunity to continue those licenses throughout their professional lives as continuing education. This
 gives publishers the opportunity to offer continually updated information in exchange for a revenue stream that adds
 additional revenue each year, instead of simply replacing revenue each year. 

 In the VSTi model, students are mandated by universities to pay a yearly fee licensing their reference curriculum. That fee is
 forwarded to VSTi, and VSTi is the conduit through which individual publishers receive license fees for individual titles. 

 Publishers receive a mandated, preset fee for every student for every title chosen by professors. Because the service is a global
 curriculum application, the fee comes in from each student each of the four years of their studies. 

 So, a book that in the past was "required" or "recommended" for a given course, and which carried the weighty overhead of
 production, distribution, and return, is now licensed by every student every year and distributed digitally. The reason for
 mandating the students is to stifle competition and destroy the market. 

    2) by requiring everyone to purchase, you eliminate the casual piracy that goes on (if we didn't do this, we would
    have to charge more, 

 What you call Casual Piracy is called "Fair Use" and is constitutionally mandated by our founding fathers to protect the
 public from people ..... actually people like you. 

    3) by allowing people to search across multiple books and manuals at the one time, the schools thought this was
    good stuff for the students to have. 

 Fine - but that has nothing to do with mandating the product. 

    9. We don't restrict publishers from being available on the disc. There isn't a monopoly on information here. 

 Mandating the use of product and forcing payment is the very definition of Monopoly. 

    10. For quite a while some schools have required purchase of computers - sometimes they even specify brand...Is
    this a monopoly? 

 Yes - and NY State has laws against this called the Second Source rule. This is actually a criminal violation of NY State Law. 

    11. Dental school curriculums are a fixed entity. Everyone goes through all of the classes. Therefore, at some point
    during your time at school, you will need the book for a given class. 

 Run that by me again? Your making them pay for material that they don't need and prevent them from reselling it in the
 after market. 

    12. Can I share it with others? You can show them the books, but you can't copy it. The FAQ on the site is poorly
    worded. 

 It's worded perfectly 

    13. We don't sell computers. 

 We don't sell our rights! 

    14. Our affiliation with Total Sports...We share a common investor. Our net infrastructure is shared with them
    for the time being. 15. Copy-restriction schemes are a necessary evil for electronic versions of content (otherwise
    you won't get electronic versions of some content...). I don't think there is any good argument around this. The
    honor 

 Don't publish and die as a business. That's your problem. 
 Brooklyn Knows the Charmer under me. 
Re:There is no need to Jump - it is clear

 (Score:1)
 by VitalGeek (geekNOSPAM@vitalviewer.com) on Tuesday August 29, @01:30PM EST
 (User #227449 Info) http://www.vitalviewer.com

 >First, let me say that when you introduced the product to the University, 
 >that it was not reviewed by the IS department. Your company had done an 
 >end-run around the department, and because this, I resigned from the school. 

 Last time I checked, academic departments take care of determining what content gets taught and required in a curriculum. 

 >First of all, one can not copy the textbooks on the disk. It is a legal 
 >fact that owners of Books have this right under Constitutional Law, but 
 >you deny it to your customers. 

 You aren't allowed to xerox books and give them away under any law. You have previously stated feelings on music belonging
 to society and not the artist, so we know your perspective on copyright law. 

 >Secondly, you claim that you are licensing the material to the students. 
 >In this case, the contract would not be valid because you couple it with a 
 >mandate for ALL the students in the program. In order to be a participant 
 >in the educational activities at the university you Must Purchase the 
 >media and the player. Contracts in which both partners are not equally 
 >allowed to fairly negotiate are non-binding under case law. 

 We have contracts with Universities. As is obvious with NYU, we negoiate with the universities who then mandate students
 to purchase the disc. Your example doesn't apply. 

 >New York University was concerned about some of these Fair Use issues. As 
 >such, they guaranteed that printed books of all the material will be 
 >available for students if they choose to buy them. But this is not nearly 
 >far enough because it is a doubling of the expense to obtain what Students 
 >already purchased in the first place. 

 We offer our service to freshmen. How have the students already purchased this? 

 >On a broader level, if the VitalBook product is allowed to pass without 
 >challenge, it will be mean the inevitable end to public education and a 
 >free exchange of information. 

 Yeah, like that is going to happen. 

 >Next will be the medical schools, then the engineering schools, then 
 >undergraduate schooling, then High School Education, until we reach the 
 >point where privately owned libraries and freedom of discussion will be 
 >outlawed. As this products works, and with the abusive power brought by 
 >the DMCA, I don't see my Grandchildren ever owning a copy of Curious 
 >George or the Cat in the Hat in the future. The publishers will have no 
 >incentive to produce paper copies for home ownership. They'll just Lease 
 >digital copies for a year to year rental. 

 A few things on this point. 

 1. We aren't the DMCA. 
 2. The only disincentive for publishers not producing the paper version of a book is if it isn't making money. 

 Why don't you ask the 13 health sciences publishers who went bankrupt over the past 7 years why they went bankrupt? Why
 can't you purchase any version of their textbooks now? Ever think about that? 

 >As your aware, is not allowed to to give Their copy to someone else, and 
 >according to your FAQ, they can not share it with upper classmen because 
 >you threaten to sue them in plain black and white on your web page. 
 >Furthermore, they can not Sell their books to other students either. The 
 >prevention of this alone is a violation of the students rights, even under 
 >the DMCA. If an Upper Classman wants to use a lower classmans device to 
 >find a paragraph of material - you website makes it clear that in your 
 >opinion this is a violation of Copyright. Yet, every single court decision 
 >and Section 107 of the Copyright Act, and the US Constitution says your 
 >just plain wrong. 

 They can let others read their books - but they can't copy them. How hard is it to understand this? 

 >Sirs - This is just NOT GOOD ENOUGH. College Students who pay they're hard 
 >earned money should be able to keep their book without your permission as 
 >part of their basic right to property under the 4th amendment of the US 
 >Constitution. What your describing is Stalinist at best. 

 Stalinist? There are very few modern comtemporaries to the atrocities committed under Stalin. You can find modern
 counterparts to the murder and oppression of Stalin in different places, but I am pretty sure none of those work in the
 e-books industry. 

 >Reason Number one why students drop out - They run out of money and the 
 >financial pressure of staying in school becomes too great. 

 Do you have statistics to back this up for Dental School education? 

 >Reason Number Two - Students may transfer to a different school using a 
 >different product or books. Now, all the education they did until this 
 >point become valueless because your time lock turns of the software. 

 All their education becomes valueless because of the time limits on our beta software? Wow, I didn't know I had that
 compiler setting turned on.... 

 >I want them to use whatever information they choose to use and not be 
 >dictated to by VitalBooks. Dentists have continuing education mandates 
 >which makes it important to them to get further education. Your completely 
 >crossing the line when you ask this question. They have Dental Association 
 >Journals, Research etc available to them. They have no need of your 
 >product to stay up to date. I definitely WANT my dentist to have the 
 >original books he learned with as a point of reference when continuing his 
 >education as a professional. Your product simple doesn't make that possible. 

 We restrict people from being able to buy journals and research? Wow, I didn't know we could do that...as for my question
 being out of line, I think it is important to know how up to date ones dentist is. You may not care. You may have false teeth. 

 >Your promising Vendors that they will make more money because they'll sell 
 >more books, and then argue that it's cheaper for the student. How is this 
 >Magic performed? Hmmm 

 Publishers print on paper. Very little of the cost of a book is for the actual content. Most of the cost is the printing, binding
 and transport of the book. Therefore, publishers can charge less for a book that doesn't have to be printed on paper. So, for
 the same cost as the paper books, we can make available to schools more content for the same price of the paper books
 before. 

 >Secondly, you are forcing students to buy material they don't want or need 
 >by taking the purchasing decision out of their hands and force feeding 
 >them material which may or may not be apropiate for their personal use. So 
 >your price fixing and using extortion. 

 Since the content on the disc is set by the school based on their curriculum, it seems to follow that the material is important
 for the students use. Extortion requires an excessive or exorbitant charge. Seeing as how we are the same cost as the paper
 versions, I don't see how that applies. 

 >And your point? It's not up to public to assure a profit. For God Sakes, 
 >NYU Dental changes over 60K a year in tuition, and then make a tidy profit 
 >with their dental clinics. Let them publish their own material on the 
 >Internet if need be. - Oh - but that's that you and your publishing 
 >partners are worried about in the first place. If NYU Dental, the Largest 
 >Dental School in the US gets serious about self publish material cheaply 
 >with the Internet, and inexpensive tools for video production and editing, 
 >then they cut the publishers out of the picture all together......... 

 Who do you think writes and reviews books? Academic faculty. All you are doing in your example is making the University a
 publisher and taking away the rights of the authors and illustrators. 

 >What's the point. Everyone has to carry the cost of 100 books because you 
 >insist? 

 I didn't. We didn't. The schools decide the list based on their curriculm which every dental student is required to take. 

 >Oh - your being very Coy. Of COURSE you include MORE on the disk than NYU 
 >asks for. It's part of your guarantee to publishers. The question is why 
 >should NYU have to PAY for more than they're asking for.. 

 Actually, they aren't charged for the extra material. 

 >No - you dropped the ball in Civics and consideration of the welfare of 
 >the public. Your website is quite good enough at making clear your total 
 >disrespect for Students and the American Publics right to own what they 
 >purchase and freedom to educate. 

 The reason we started this project was to try and solve the problem that fewer and fewer books were available because
 publishers were going under. 

 Your notion of purchase is incorrect. For example, you can't perform a play from a copyrighted work legally without paying
 royalties to the author, nor can you take a vinyl LP you purchased, and play it in a restaurant without paying royalties to
 music publishers. This has gone on for quite a while without impacting the welfare of society. 

 >What you call Casual Piracy is called "Fair Use" and is constitutionally 
 >mandated by our founding fathers to protect the public from people ..... 
 >actually people like you. 

 If you copy one of our books, you copy the entire book. That isn't allowed under fair use with the paper versions. Not for
 non-profits, not for anyone. 

 >Mandating the use of product and forcing payment is the very definition of 
 >Monopoly. 

 The school requires that. Not us. 

 >Mandating the use of product and forcing payment is the very definition of 
 >Monopoly. 

 NYU gets to pick whatever books they want. A monopoly would restrict choice to the school. We don't. 

 >Run that by me again? Your making them pay for material that they don't 
 >need and prevent them from reselling it in the after market. 

 They don't need any of the books required for a class? Fascinating. 

 >12. Can I share it with others? You can show them the books, but you can't 
 >copy it. The FAQ on the site is poorly worded. 
 > 
 >It's worded perfectly 

 Uh, what part of show and copy do you not understand? 

 >13. We don't sell computers. 
 >We don't sell our rights! 

 We don't give away intellectual property. 

 >Don't publish and die as a business. That's your problem. 

 I don't get your point.
 [ Reply to This | Parent ] 
  <On a broader level, if the VitalBook product is allowed to pass without >challenge, it will be
 mean the inevitable end to public education and a >free exchange of information. Yeah, like that is going to happen. As a
 matter of fact, it is happening right and people argued for the right to do this during the hearings at the Copyright Office in
 Washington DC and Standford University. You must of missed those. 

    few things on this point. 1. We aren't the DMCA. 2. The only disincentive for publishers not producing the paper
    version of a book is if it isn't making money. Why don't you ask the 13 health sciences publishers who went
    bankrupt over the past 7 years why they went bankrupt? Why can't you purchase any version of their textbooks
    now? Ever think about that? 

 The Market has spoken.... there are too many publishers publishing too ineffeceintly. A Free market person like you (and
 me) should have no trouble with that. Why do we need any of these publishers. Why can't people publish on their own
 without the Book Publishers? Why are you in the way of progress and efficiencies of the Market? They can let others read
 their books - but they can't copy them. How hard is it to understand this? No - They can not according to the license. And
 even if they could, they're overly dependend on your prior aproval to be within reasonable fair use of the material. 
 Brooklyn Knows the Charmer under me. 
 [ Reply to This | Parent ] 


 Re:There is no need to Jump - it is clear

 (Score:1)
 by MrBrklyn on Tuesday August 29, @10:06PM EST
 (User #4775 Info) http://www.mrbrklyn.com

    Last time I checked, academic departments take care of determining w hat content gets taught and required in a
    curriculum.

 The last time I check, Information Systems is the source of educated evaluation of technology, including the ethical
 questions and reviewing the best alternativ es for delivering digital services. 

    You aren't allowed to xerox books and give them away under any law. You have pre viously stated feelings on
    music belonging to society and not the artist, so we know your perspective on copyright law. 

 This is an unhanded, unbecoming statement. My views on copyright is not the iss ue. It's your over reaching of copyright and
 suspending Fair Use rights which i s the issue. 

    We have contracts with Universities. As is obvious with NYU, we nego iate with the universities who then
    mandate students to purchase the disc. Your example doesn't apply. 

 Wrong. It's the students paying for the service and the student individuals bei ng licensed. Your completely wrong and
 bordering on being dishonest. -On a broader level, if the VitalBook product is allowed to pass without challenge, it will be
 mean the inevitable end to public education and a free exchange of information. - Yeah, like that is going to happen. As a
 matter of fact, it is happening right and people argued for the right to do this during the hearings at the Copyright Office in
 Washington DC and Standford University. You must of missed those. 

    1. We aren't the DMCA. 2. The only disincentive for publishers not producing the paper version of a book is if it
    isn't making money. Why don't you ask the 13 health sciences publishers who went bankrupt over th e past 7
    years why they went bankrupt? Why can't you purchase any version of their textbooks now? Ever think about t
    hat? 

 First - Your are not the DMCA because the DMCA stands for the Digital Millinium Copyright Act of 1998.

 Second - The reason not to publish on paper is because the DMCA and VitalBooks goves them a legal extortion sceme
 which is just unethical.

 Third - The Market has spoken.... there are too many publishers publishing too ineffecei ntly. A Free market person like you
 (and me) should have no trouble with that. Why do we need any of these publishers. Why can't people publish on their own
 without the Book Publishers? Why are you in the way of progress and efficiencie s of the Market? They can let others read
 their books - but they can't copy them. How hard is it to understand this? No - They can not according to the license. And
 even if they could, they're overly dependend on your prior aproval to be within reasonable fair use of the material. Your
 Company is willing to trade civil rights for Copyright Protections that are extra constitutional. That's a dangerous thing.
 Read http://www.nyfairuse.org for better insight. I no more want to protect publishers than I want to protect anyone else who
 has a business model which can not be sustained. 

    Uh, what part of show and copy do you not understand?

 The part not in your FAQ. What is in your FAQ is clear and agrees with the DMCA and the opinions voiced by others in
 your industry at the Copyright Hearings. I can't share it with an upperclassman, or any unregistered user.

 And for your information, Copying is ALSO a Constitutional Right. Giving Copies away is even legal sometimes, especially
 in education, and sharing information is completely essential for a healthy society. 

 BTW - your quoting and copying of some of my message is a violation of my copyright in your world view .... go figure. 

    -- We don't give away intellectual property. -- --Don't publish and die as a business. That's your problem. --
    --- I don't get your point.--- 

 That's the problem. 

 BTW - You DO give away copyrighted material at the point of sale. At that point, certain rights to that material has now
 transported to the customer as part of their rights under the 4th and 1st amendment of the Bill of Rights. 
 Brooklyn Knows the Charmer under me. 
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